Wikipedia:Categories for discussion

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XFD backlog
V	Nov	Dec	Total
CfD	0	15	15
TfD	0	8	8
MfD	2	1	3
FfD	1	6	7
RfD	9	51	60
AfD	0	0	0

Categories for discussion (CfD) is the central venue for discussing specific proposals to delete, merge, rename or split categories and stub types in accordance with the guidelines for categorization, category naming and stub articles.

For detailed instructions about using CfD, see "How to use CfD" below. Briefly, nominations are handled through one of two processes:

Speedy renaming and merging, for uncontroversial proposals that meet specified criteria—see "Speedy renaming and merging" below.
Full discussion, for all other proposals. Discussions typically remain open for at least seven days and are closed once a rough consensus has formed or no objections to the nomination are raised.

Except in uncontroversial cases such as reverting vandalism, do not amend or depopulate a category once it has been nominated at CfD as this hampers other editors' efforts to evaluate a category and participate in the discussion.

When a category is renamed or merged with another category, in limited circumstances it may be helpful to leave an instance of the {{Category redirect|...}} template on the category's former page. See "Redirecting categories" below for more information.

Wikipedia:Move review can be used to contest the outcome of a CfD request that is limited in scope to renaming, as long as all steps are followed. If a discussion on the request closer's talk page does not resolve an issue, then a move review will evaluate the close of a CfD move discussion to determine whether or not the close was reasonable and consistent with the spirit and intent of common practice, policies, and guidelines. CfDs involving deletion should be reviewed at Wikipedia:Deletion review.

Scope

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WP:CFDSCOPE

CfD is intended only for specific proposals to delete, merge, rename or split categories or stub types. For general discussion about how to improve the category system, use other appropriate venues such as Wikipedia talk:Categorization, Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Categories, and any relevant WikiProjects' talk pages.

Current discussions

Add a new entry

Discussions awaiting closure

Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2024 December 18 (8 open)
Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2024 December 17 (6 open)
Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2024 December 13 (1 open)

See also the list of individual discussions awaiting closure here and the list of full open discussions awaiting closure here.

How to use CfD

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WP:CFD#HOWTO

Nomination procedure

Twinkle

You may use Twinkle to facilitate CfD nominations. To install Twinkle, go to Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-gadgets and check "Twinkle" in the "Browsing" section. Use the now-installed "XfD" (Start a deletion discussion) tab while viewing the page you want to nominate.

Twinkle only allows you to nominate a single category or stub template. For bundled nominations including multiple categories, see § MassCFD.

MassCFD

You can use the script User:Qwerfjkl/scripts/massXFD to automatically make mass nominations.

Manual nominations

I

Preliminary steps.

Before nominating a category:

Read and understand the guidance for category names and overcategorization.
For categories containing biographical articles, read the guidance for categorization of people.
For categories containing the user pages of Wikipedians, read the guidance for user categories.

In the following special cases:

If a category is a red link, then it is already deleted (or was never created in the first place) and does not need to be nominated.
If a category is unpopulated, use {{db-catempty}} to request it be speedily deleted in 7 days.
If a category is populated solely by a template (other than a stub template, see #Stub types below) and you are proposing to delete both the category and template, follow the instructions at Wikipedia:Templates for discussion.

For further information, see Wikipedia:Categorization and Wikipedia:Manual of Style.

II

Edit the category.

Add one of the following templates at the beginning of the category page (not the talk page) of every category to be discussed. For nominations involving large numbers of categories, help adding these templates can be requested here.

Otherwise, if nominating a single category:

For deleting, use {{subst:Cfd}}
For merging, use {{subst:Cfm|Other category}}
- For merging to two categories, use {{subst:Cfm-double|Other category 1|Other category 2}}
For renaming, use {{subst:Cfr|Proposed name}}
For splitting, use {{subst:Cfs|Proposed name 1|Proposed name 2}}
For converting the category into a list, use {{subst:Cfl|Proposed name}}
For other options (containerization, etc.), use {{subst:Cfd|type=nature of proposed discussion}}

If nominating a group of related categories, use a bundled nomination:

For deleting, use {{subst:Cfd|CfD section name}}
For merging, use {{subst:Cfm|Other category|CfD section name}}
- For merging to two categories, use {{subst:Cfm-double|Other category 1|Other category 2|CfD section name}}
For renaming, use {{subst:Cfr|Proposed name|CfD section name}}
For splitting, use {{subst:Cfs|Proposed name 1|Proposed name 2|CfD section name}}
For converting the category into a list, {{subst:Cfl|Proposed name|CfD section name}}
For other options (containerization, etc.), use {{subst:Cfd|type=nature of proposed discussion|CfD section name}}

Include "CfD", "CfM", "CfR", "CfS" or "CfL" in the edit summary, and do not mark the edit as minor. Preview before saving.
To add the template for previous nomination days, use the "full" version of the template by appending "full" to the template name, i.e. {{cfd full}}, {{cfm full}}, {{cfr full}}, {{cfs full}} and {{cfl full}}. Use the |day=, |month= and |year= parameters to make the banner link to the correct CfD page.
Consider adding {{subst:cfd notice|Category name|2024 December 26|CfD section name}} ~~~~ to the talk page of the category's creator.
For details about these templates, see each template's documentation.

III

Create the CFD section.

Click THIS LINK to edit the section of CfD for today's entries.

Follow the instructions (visible in edit mode) to copy and paste one of the templates below. When inserting category names into these template's parameters, except the text= parameter, omit the Category: prefix and do not use wikilinks, as the template takes care of this.

If nominating a single category:

For deleting, use {{subst:Cfd2|Obsolete category|text=Your reason(s) for the proposed deletion. ~~~~}}
For merging, use {{subst:Cfm2|Origin category|Destination category|text=Your reason(s) for the proposed merge. ~~~~}}
- For merging to two categories, use {{subst:Cfm2|Origin category|Destination category 1|target2=Destination category 2|text=Your reason(s) for the proposed merge. ~~~~}}
For renaming, use {{subst:Cfr2|Current category|Proposed name|text=Your reason(s) for the proposed rename. ~~~~}}
For splitting, use {{subst:Cfs2|Current category|Proposed category 1|Proposed category 2|text=Your reason(s) for the proposed split. ~~~~}}
For converting the category into a list, use {{subst:Cfc2|Current category|Proposed article|text=Your reason(s) for the proposed conversion. ~~~~}}
For other options (containerization, etc.), use {{subst:Cfd2|Current category|type=other type|text=Your reason(s) for the proposed conversion. ~~~~}}

For a bundled nomination, use one of the standard templates to build the "Cfd section name" for the first nominated category. After saving that, the second and subsequent nominations must be inserted manually, as follows:

==== Cfd section name ====

* 1st category

* 2nd category [Make clear whether you propose deletion, merging or renaming]

* Your reason for nominating the categories, and signature.

If a bundled nomination is too long, consider using {{hidden}} to hide some of the nominated categories.
In your reason, use links if mentioning articles or categories. To link to a category, use the colon trick by adding a colon (:) to the beginning of the link, e.g. [[:Category:Foo]].
Preview before saving to check that your nomination is formatted correctly, and remember to include your signature at the end of the nomination.

Stub types

I

Preliminary steps.

In general, a stub type consists of a stub template and a dedicated stub category. Before nominating a stub type for deletion, merging or renaming:

Read and understand guidance for creating stub types and stub type naming conventions.
Review the list of existing stub types—be advised, this list may not be comprehensive.
If you wish to:
- Create a new stub type—follow the procedure for proposing new stub types.
- Delete, merge or rename a stub category only, without deleting or renaming the associated stub template—follow the instructions above this section.
- Delete or rename a stub template—continue to section II.

II

Edit the template.

Add one of the following tags at the beginning of the template to be discussed.

For deletion, use {{subst:Sfd-t|Section name}}
For renaming, use {{subst:Sfr-t|Proposed name|Section name}}

Please include "SFD" or "SFR" in the edit summary, and don't mark the edit as minor. Preview before saving.
Consider notifying the template's creator on their talk page. To find the contributor, check the page history of the stub template.

III

Create the CFD section.

Click THIS LINK to edit the section of CfD for today's entries.

Follow the instructions (visible in edit mode) and paste the following text (remember to update the default parameters):

For deletion, use {{subst:sfd-t2|TemplateName|text=Your reason(s) for the proposed deletion. ~~~~}}
For renaming, use {{subst:sfr-t2|TemplateOldName|TemplateNewName|text=Your reason(s) for the proposed deletion. ~~~~}}

In your rationale, mention how many articles currently use the template to help other editors. When linking to a category in your rationale, always add a colon (:) to the beginning of the link, like [[:Category:Foo]]. This makes a category link that can be seen on the page, and avoids putting this page into the category you are nominating.
Preview before saving to check that your nomination is formatted correctly, and remember to include your signature at the end of the nomination.

Notifying interested projects and editors

In addition to the steps listed above, you may choose to invite participation by editors who are likely to be informed about a nominated category. All such efforts must comply with Wikipedia's guideline against biased canvassing. In addition, to help make your messages about the CfD discussion clear, avoid Wikipedia-specific abbreviations, link to relevant policies or guidelines, and link to the discussion itself.

Notifying related WikiProjects

WikiProjects consist of groups of editors who are interested in a particular subject. If a nominated category is within the scope of one or more WikiProjects, consider adding a brief, neutral note on their talk page(s) about the nomination. You may use {{subst:cfd notice|Category name|2024 December 26|CfD section name}} ~~~~ or write a personalized message.

Tagging the nominated category's talk page with a relevant WikiProject's banner will include the category in that WikiProject's Article Alerts if they subscribe to the system. For instance, tagging a nominated category with {{WikiProject Physics}} will add the discussion to Wikipedia:WikiProject Physics/Article alerts.

Notifying substantial contributors to the category

While not required, it is generally considered courteous to notify the good-faith creator and main contributors of the category that you are nominating for discussion. To find the creator and main contributors, check the category's page history or talk page. You may use {{Cfd notice}} to inform the category's creator and all other editors.

Notifying other interested editors

It may be helpful to invite other subject-matter experts by posting a message on the talk page of the most closely related article, such as Protein family for Category:Protein families. You may use {{Cfdnotice}} for this.

Closing procedure

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WP:CfDClosings

After seven days, someone will close the discussion according to the consensus that formed or, if needed, relist it to allow more discussion. Editors closing discussions must follow the administrator instructions and, except in the case of a "keep" or "no consensus" outcome, implement the result or log it at the Working page to ensure it is implemented.

Redirecting categories

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WP:CATRED

In general, an unpopulated category should be deleted (see speedy deletion criterion C1) because it is not useful for navigation and sorting. In limited circumstances, and because categories cannot be redirected using "hard" redirects (i.e. #REDIRECT[[''target'']]), we use a form of "soft redirect" to solve the issue. You can create a category redirect by adding {{Category redirect|target}} to the category page. Bots patrol these categories and move articles into the "redirect" targets.

In particular, category redirects are used at the former category name when we convert hyphens into en dashes (e.g. Category:Canada-Russia relations → Category:Canada–Russia relations). It is also helpful to set up category redirects from titles with plain letters (i.e. characters on a standard keyboard) where the category names include diacritics.

A list of redirected categories is available at Category:Wikipedia soft redirected categories.

Speedy renaming and merging

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WP:CFDS

This page has a backlog that requires the attention of willing editors.
Please remove this notice when the backlog is cleared.

Speedy renaming or speedy merging of categories may be requested only if they meet a speedy criterion, for example WP:C2D (consistency with main article's name) or WP:C2C (consistency with established category tree names). Please see instructions below.

Determine which speedy criterion applies
Tag category page with {{subst:cfr-speedy|New name}} or {{subst:cfm-speedy|Merge target}}
List request along with speedy criteria reason under "Current requests" below on this page

Please note that a speedy request must state which of the narrowly defined criteria strictly applies. Hence, any other non-speedy criteria, even "common sense" or "obvious", may be suitable points, but only at a full discussion at WP:Categories for discussion.

Requests may take 48 hours to process after listing if there are no objections. This delay allows other users to review the request to ensure that it meets the speedy criteria for speedy renaming or merging, and to raise objections to the proposed change.

Categories that qualify for speedy deletion (per Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion, e.g., "patent nonsense", "recreation") can be tagged with the regular speedy tags, such as {{db|reason}} with no required delay. Empty categories can be deleted if they remain empty 7 days after tagging with {{db-empty}}. Renaming under C2E may also be processed instantly (at the discretion of an administrator) as it is a variation on G7.

To oppose a speedy request you must record your objection within 48 hours of the nomination. Do this by inserting immediately under the nomination:

Oppose, (the reasons for your objection). ~~~~

You will not be able to do this by editing the page WP:Categories for discussion. Instead, you should edit the section WP:Categories for discussion#Add requests for speedy renaming and merging here or the page WP:Categories for discussion/Speedy#Add requests for speedy renaming and merging here (WP:CFDS). Be aware that in the course of any discussion, the nomination and its discussion may get moved further down the page purely for organizational convenience – you may need to search WP:CFDS to find the new location. Participate in any ongoing discussion, but unless you withdraw your opposition, a knowledgeable person may eventually bring forward the nomination and discussion to become a regular CFD discussion. At that stage you may add further comments, but your initial opposition will still be considered. However, if after seven days there has been no support for the request, and no response from the nominator, the request may be dropped from further consideration as a speedy.

Contested speedy requests become stale, and can be untagged and delisted after 7 days of inactivity. Optionally, if the discussion may be useful for future reference, it may be copied to the category talk page, with a section heading and {{moved discussion from|[[WP:CFDS]]|2=~~~~}}. If the nominator wants to revive the process, this may be requested at WP:Categories for discussion (CfD) in accordance with its instructions.

If you belatedly notice and want to oppose a speedy move that has already been processed, contact one of the admins who process the Speedy page. If your objection seems valid, they may reverse the move, or start a full CFD discussion.

Speedy criteria

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WP:C2

The category-specific criteria for speedy renaming, or merging are strictly limited to:

C2A: Typographic and spelling fixes

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WP:C2A

Correction of spelling errors and capitalization fixes. Differences between British and American spelling (e.g. Harbours → Harbors) are not considered errors; however if the convention of the relevant category tree is to use one form over the other then a rename may be appropriate under C2C. If both spellings exist as otherwise-identical category names, they should be merged.
Appropriate conversion of hyphens into en dashes or vice versa (e.g. Category:Canada-Russia relations → Category:Canada–Russia relations).
Correction of obvious grammatical errors, such as a missing conjunction (e.g. Individual frogs toads → Individual frogs and toads). This includes pluralizing a noun in the name of a set category, but not when disagreement might reasonably be anticipated as to whether the category is a topic or set category.

C2B: Consistency with established Wikipedia naming conventions and practices

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WP:C2B

Expanding abbreviated country names (e.g. U.S. → United States).
Disambiguation fixes from an unqualified name (e.g. Category:Washington → Category:Washington (state) or Category:Washington, D.C.).

C2C: Consistency with established category tree names

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WP:C2C

Bringing a category into line with established naming conventions for that category tree, or into line with the various "x by y", "x of y", or "x in y" categorization conventions specified at Wikipedia:Category names

This should be used only where there is no room for doubt that the category in question is being used for the standard purpose instead of being a potential subcategory.
This criterion should be applied only when there is no ambiguity or doubt over the existence of a category naming convention. Such a convention must be well defined and must be overwhelmingly used within the tree. If this is not the case then the category in question must be brought forward to a full Cfd nomination.
This criterion will not apply in cases where the category tree observes distinctions in local usage (e.g. Category:Transportation in the United States and Category:Transport in the United Kingdom).

C2D: Consistency with main article's name

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WP:C2D

Renaming a topic category to match its eponymous page (e.g. Category:The Beatles and The Beatles).
This applies only if the related page's current name (and by extension, the proposed name for the category) is:
- unambiguous (so it generally does not apply to proposals to remove a disambiguator from the category name, even when the main article is the primary topic of its name, i.e. it does not contain a disambiguator); and
- uncontroversial, either because of longstanding stability at that particular name, or because the page was just moved (i) after a page move discussion resulted in explicit consensus to rename, or (ii) unilaterally to reflect an official renaming which is verified by one or more citations (provided in the nomination). C2D does not apply if the result would be contrary to guidelines at WP:CATNAME, or there is any ongoing discussion about the name of the page or category, or there has been a recent discussion concerning any of the pages that resulted in a no consensus result, or it is controversial in some other way.
This criterion may also be used to rename a set category in the same circumstances, where the set is defined by a renamed topic; e.g. players for a sports team, or places in a district.
Before nominating a category to be renamed per WP:C2D, consider whether it makes more sense to move the article instead of the category.

C2E: Author request

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WP:C2E

This criterion applies only if the author of a category requests or agrees to renaming within six months of creating the category.
The criterion does not apply if other editors have populated or changed the category since it was created. "Other editors" includes bots that populated the category, but excludes an editor working with the author on the renaming.

C2F: One eponymous page

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WP:C2F

This criterion applies if the category contains only an eponymous article, list, template or media file, provided that the category has not otherwise been emptied shortly before the nomination. The default outcome is an upmerge to the parent categories, where applicable. Nominations should use {{subst:cfm-speedy}} (speedy merger) linking to a suitable parent category, or to another appropriate category (e.g. one that is currently on the article). When listing the nomination at WP:CFDS, you must manually add all the appropriate parent categories as targets if the member page is not already in them.

Admin instructions

When handling the listings:

Make sure that the listing meets one of the above criteria.
With the exception of C2E, make sure that it was both listed and tagged at least 48 hours previously.
Make sure that there is no opposition to the listing; if there is a discussion, check if the opposing user(s) ended up withdrawing their opposition.

If the listing meets these criteria, simply have the category renamed or merged – follow the instructions at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Administrator instructions, in the section "If the decision is to Rename, Merge, or Delete"; to list it for the bots, use the Speedy moves section.

Applying speedy criteria in full discussions

A nomination to merge or rename, brought forward as a full CfD, may be speedily closed if the closing administrator is satisfied that:
- The nomination clearly falls within the scope of one of the criteria listed here, and
- No objections have been made within 48 hours of the initial nomination.
If both these conditions are satisfied, the closure will be regarded as having been a result of a speedy nomination. If any objections have been raised then the CfD nomination will remain in place for the usual 7-day discussion period, to be decided in accordance with expressed consensus.

Add requests for speedy renaming and merging here

If the category and desired change do not match one of the criteria mentioned in C2, do not list it here. Instead, list it in the main CFD section.

If you are in any doubt as to whether it qualifies, do not list it here.

Use the following format on a new line at the beginning of the list:

* [[:Category:old name]] to [[:Category:new name]] – Reason ~~~~

If the current name should be redirected rather than deleted, use:

* REDIRECT [[:Category:old name]] to [[:Category:new name]] – Reason ~~~~

To note that human action is required, e.g. updating a template that populates the category, use:

* NO BOTS [[:Category:old name]] to [[:Category:new name]] – Reason ~~~~

Remember to tag the category page with: {{subst:cfr-speedy|New name}}

A request may be completed if it is more than 48 hours old; that is, if the time stamp shown is earlier than 21:56, 24 December 2024 (UTC). Currently, there are 194 open requests (refresh).

Current requests

Please add new requests at the top of the list, preferably with a link to the parent category (in case of C2C) or relevant article (in case of C2D).

Category:Werewolves in Greek Myths to Category:Werewolves in Greek mythology – C2C: per parent Category:Metamorphoses into animals in Greek mythology. Marcocapelle (talk) 12:56, 26 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Category:Silent film actors to Category:Silent-film actors – C2A: Compound modifier; it's not about film actors (or comedians) that are silent, it's the films they appear in that are silent films. Tagging only the top two levels to begin with. HandsomeFella (talk) 12:50, 26 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Category:Extinct monotypic bird genera to Category:Prehistoric monotypic bird genera – C2C: a few birds such as the Choiseul pigeon or the broad-billed parrot are contemporarily extinct ; the others are prehistoric ans should be moved to a relevant category (by renaming this one?) --Couiros22 (talk) 12:30, 26 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Category:Fritsche family (hockey) to Category:Fritsche family (ice hockey) – C2C: Per other subcategories of Category:Ice hockey families. Mike Selinker (talk) 06:21, 26 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Category:Seymour family (U.S.) to Category:Seymour family (United States) – C2C: Per all other subcategories of Category:American families which have this country disambiguator. Mike Selinker (talk) 06:13, 26 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- Category:Sherman family (U.S.) to Category:Sherman family (United States)
Category:Pratt family (Latter-day Saints) to Category:Pratt family (Latter Day Saints) – C2D: Per Latter Day Saint movement. Mike Selinker (talk) 06:06, 26 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Category:Luttrell family (of Dunster) to Category:Luttrell family (Dunster) – C2C: Per all other subcategories of Category:English families where a location disambiguator is needed. Mike Selinker (talk) 05:59, 26 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Category:Vann family (Georgia) to Category:Vann family of Georgia (U.S. state) – C2C: Per nearly all other categories of Category:American families where a state disambiguator is needed. Mike Selinker (talk) 05:55, 26 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Category:Georgian royal dynasties to Category:Royal dynasties of Georgia (country) – C2C: Norm is Georgia (country), parent is Noble families of Georgia (country) ^SMason_Garrison 00:19, 26 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Category:10th-century monarchs of Georgia to Category:10th-century monarchs of Georgia (country) – C2C: parent is 10th-century people from Georgia (country), and norm is "Georgia (country)" ^SMason_Garrison 00:17, 26 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Category:Monarchs of Georgia to Category:Monarchs of Georgia (country) – C2C: norm is monarchs of Georgia (country) ^SMason_Garrison 00:16, 26 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Category:Family trees of Georgian monarchs to Category:Family trees of monarchs of Georgia (country) – C2C: parent is Monarchs of Georgia (country), and norm is "Georgia (country)" ^SMason_Garrison 00:15, 26 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Category:German botanical artists to Category:German botanical illustrators – C2C: parents are Botanical illustrators, German illustrators, and Category:Botanical artists redirects to Botanical illustrators ^SMason_Garrison 23:37, 24 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Category:Dutch botanical artists to Category:Dutch botanical illustrators – C2C: parents are Botanical illustrators, Dutch illustrators, and Category:Botanical artists redirects to Botanical illustrators ^SMason_Garrison 23:35, 24 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Opposed requests

East Timor to Timor-Leste – C2D: Per RM at Talk:Timor-Leste#Requested_move_16_December_2024. Same as below, but covering all categories that are not borders or bilateral relations. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 03:41, 24 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose renaming Category:1940s in East Timor only, since this is pre-independence. Marcocapelle (talk) 14:29, 24 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

- Added borders. –LaundryPizza03 (d c̄) 03:38, 24 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  
  Oppose the year categories. Any year category that dates before the country was known as "Timor-Leste" shouldn't be renamed. Gonnym (talk) 11:38, 24 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  Also oppose the WikiProject related categories as the project hasn't been renamed. Gonnym (talk) 11:39, 24 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  Okay, so that means everything except "WikiProject East Timor" and pre-2002 year categories. –LaundryPizza03 (d c̄) 19:02, 24 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment The problem with this and similar moves when countries change their names is twofold: as noted above, it is inappropriate for topics that date before the change, and it can become inconsistent with external sources. Thus, for example, the WGSRPD is used by many plant taxonomic databases to define the unit areas of plant distributions. It uses "East Timor", so we do at Category:Flora of East Timor. This ensures the distribution categorization is consistent with sources used in the article. This isn't a knockdown argument against moving, but nominating so many categories of different kinds at once makes it difficult to consider them carefully. Peter coxhead (talk) 16:13, 24 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
In these cases, we need redirects.--Ymblanter (talk) 08:02, 26 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note to closing admin If processing the project categories, please make sure all templates are changed before letting the bot loose on these. Timrollpickering (talk) 09:31, 26 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
International Force East Timor was the name of a military unit. Category:Australian military personnel of the International Force for East Timor is for notable persons who belonged to that force. Neither of these articles was approved for speedy renaming. I have reverted the changes. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 10:54, 26 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Chief Secretaries of Ceylon to Category:Chief secretaries of Ceylon – C2A: MOS:JOBTITLES WikiEditor50 (talk) 07:08, 22 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Category:Chief Secretaries of Transjordan to Category:Chief secretaries of Transjordan – C2A: MOS:JOBTITLES WikiEditor50 (talk) 06:37, 22 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Category:Colonial Secretaries of Western Australia to Category:Colonial secretaries of Western Australia – C2A: MOS:JOBTITLES WikiEditor50 (talk) 06:33, 22 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
oppose as per MOS:JOBTITLES They are capitalized only in the following cases: When a formal title for a specific entity (or conventional translation thereof) is addressed as a title or position in and of itself the category is addressing the position in and of itself. This applies to all the other listed categories as well Gnan garra 11:10, 22 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The job titles are in plural, and we do not capitalize in such cases (see: "When a formal title for a specific entity... is not plural..."). Similar categories have also been moved to use lowercase based on this (e.g., Category:Vice presidents of the United States, categories under Category:Defense ministers by country, categories under Category:Governors-general, and categories under Category:Deputy prime ministers; see also articles like List of secretaries of state of the United States, List of secretaries general of the Western European Union, etc.) WikiEditor50 (talk) 17:44, 24 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Category:Colonial Secretaries of Prince Edward Island to Category:Colonial secretaries of Prince Edward Island – C2A: MOS:JOBTITLES WikiEditor50 (talk) 06:27, 22 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Category:Colonial Secretaries of Newfoundland to Category:Colonial secretaries of Newfoundland – C2A: MOS:JOBTITLES WikiEditor50 (talk) 06:25, 22 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Category:Colonial Secretaries of Bermuda to Category:Colonial secretaries of Bermuda – C2A: MOS:JOBTITLES WikiEditor50 (talk) 06:23, 22 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Category:Colonial Secretaries of Barbados to Category:Colonial secretaries of Barbados – C2A: MOS:JOBTITLES WikiEditor50 (talk) 06:21, 22 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Category:Colonial Secretaries of the Bahamas to Category:Colonial secretaries of the Bahamas – C2A: MOS:JOBTITLES WikiEditor50 (talk) 06:19, 22 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Category:Chief Secretaries of British Guiana to Category:Chief secretaries of British Guiana – C2A: MOS:JOBTITLES WikiEditor50 (talk) 06:11, 22 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Syrian intelligence agencies to Category:Ba'athist Syria intelligence agencies – C2C: Rename to match renamed parent article Ba'athist Syria. These are organizations associated with the previous government that ran the country. Longhornsg (talk) 02:57, 22 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- Oppose. Looking at Talk:Ba'athist Syria there still is some uncertainty about the long-term name of the article. Also would not match the rest of the tree; we do not have Category:Ba'athist Syria. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 03:33, 22 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Indigenous leaders in South America to Category:Indigenous leaders of South America – C2C: parent is "Indigenous leaders of the Americas", which uses "of" ^SMason_Garrison 18:40, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Smasongarrison: arguably the parent might be renamed to "in". Marcocapelle (talk) 18:56, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Both parents? Indigenous people of South America also uses of ^SMason_Garrison 18:57, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- Right. There is Category:Indigenous leaders in Canada. I guess "in" is technically more correct. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:00, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  Hmmm. That's a good point. I don't have strong opinions about which is used. Should we take this to full to see if someone does? ^SMason_Garrison 19:11, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Peggy Jay family to Category:Jay-Garnett family - To better summarise the contents as the family is wider than just direct relatives of Peggy Jay. OGBC1992 (talk) 09:28, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I do not think this is the speedy material. @OGBC1992:, would you mind taking it to full CFD with literally the same justification? Ymblanter (talk) 10:38, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hi @Ymblanter I am not sure how to take something to CFD if you wouldn't mind assisting? Many thanks. OGBC1992 (talk) 11:57, 23 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose all needs discussion. Johnbod (talk) 18:26, 15 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

What exactly is your problem, sir? The vast majority of Wikipedia articles related to the ancient Near East use "ancient Near East" (the same goes for the articles/categories about ancient Rome, ancient Greece and ancient Egypt). Also, "Museums of Ancient Near East" categories are missing the definite article regardless of your preferences ("Museums of the Ancient Near East" or "Museums of the ancient Near East").--Russian Rocky (talk) 21:49, 15 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'm fine with adding "the" - it's "ancient" that needs discussion. If it it is true that "the vast majority of Wikipedia articles related to the ancient Near East use "ancient Near East" (the same goes for the articles/categories about ancient Rome, ancient Greece and ancient Egypt)" this is only because of recent campaigns by a handful of capitalization fanatics, acting without discussion or consensus. Johnbod (talk) 04:19, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

So why don't you discuss it on Talk:Ancient Near East instead? To begin with, there is not enough people in CFDs to discuss this matter. Also, what "capitalization fanatics" are you talking about? Are you aware that "Ancient Near East" was changed to "ancient Near East" in 2011 (Talk:Ancient Near East#Capitalization)? Here's an excerpt: "According to The SBL Handbook of Style For Ancient Near Eastern, Biblical, and Early Christian Studies (p. 153), "Ancient" should not be capitalized, not in "ancient Near East" nor in "ancient Near Eastern"." Since 2011, nobody has talked about capitalization on Talk:Ancient Near East.

Except Category:Novels set in the Ancient Near East, Category:Films set in the Ancient Near East, Category:Sculpture of the Ancient Near East, other categories with no definite article should be renamed in any case. I suggest to stick to "ancient Near East" at first because it's more widespread inspite of your claim about "a handful of capitalization fanatics" (you provided no evidence that "ancient Near East" is controversial and is under discussion). Personally, I don't care whether it is "ancient Near East" or "Ancient Near East", but the current consensus is apparently the former and let's stick to it.--Russian Rocky (talk) 20:38, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Most category and article page names do use lowercase "ancient" in phrases like "ancient Rome" and "ancient Greece" (excluding language designations). See usage throughout the Ancient Rome page, Social class in ancient Rome, Patrician (ancient Rome), Timeline of ancient Greece, Category:Wikipedians interested in ancient Rome, Category:Novels set in ancient Rome, Category:Prosopography of ancient Rome, Category:Wars involving ancient Greece, Category:Battles involving ancient Greece, Category:Culture of ancient Greece, and Category:History books about ancient Greece for examples. I believe we should aim for consistency in article and category names. Many of these pages and categories have had these names for quite some time and were not moved recently. If you would like to use uppercase in phrases like "Ancient Greece", why not propose this at the talk pages of the main pages? WikiEditor50 (talk) 06:54, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Russian Rocky: are you planning to move this to full discussion? Marcocapelle (talk) 06:43, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, please. Unfortunately, I can't figure out myself what Johnbod's problem is. He claimed that the vast majority of Wikipedia articles related to the ancient Near East use "ancient Near East" because of "recent campaigns by a handful of capitalization fanatics, acting without discussion or consensus", but there is no evidence that "ancient Near East" is controversial and/or is under discussion. I agree with InverseHypercube on Talk:Ancient Near East who said the following: "According to The SBL Handbook of Style For Ancient Near Eastern, Biblical, and Early Christian Studies (p. 153), "Ancient" should not be capitalized, not in "ancient Near East" nor in "ancient Near Eastern"."
See The SBL Handbook of Style For Ancient Near Eastern, Biblical, and Early Christian Studies (Appendix A: Capitalization and Spelling Examples) at the Internet Archive: p. 153: "ancient Near East (noun)" "ancient Near Eastern (adj.)".--Russian Rocky (talk) 08:32, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

On hold pending other discussion

Category:Possibly fictional pirates to Category:Pirates whose existence is disputed – C2C: parent is People whose existence is disputed ^SMason_Garrison 06:07, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose speedy There are fare more subcategories of Category:People whose existence is disputed that use "Possibly fictional" than "whose existence is disputed", and therefore it's not a clear convention to apply C2C. Armbrust ^{The Homunculus} 10:33, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Those are all being renamed to match this parent. Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2024 December 19#Category:Possibly fictional people from Europe ^SMason_Garrison 06:21, 22 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
In that case we should wait until that is concluded and if it does then we can process this. Armbrust ^{The Homunculus} 23:48, 22 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Stainton, south Cumbria to Category:Stainton, Westmorland and Furness – C2D: Match Stainton, Westmorland and Furness. Hey man im josh (talk) 14:23, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose ambiguous with Stainton, Dacre, see User talk:Hey man im josh#Stainton. Crouch, Swale (talk) 18:11, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Postpone until we know the result of the proposed move of Stainton, Westmorland and Furness. Grutness...wha? 03:35, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Moved to full discussion

Category:Pro-Russian military personnel killed in the war in Donbas to Category:Russian military personnel killed in the war in Donbas – C2C: parent is Russian military personnel killed in the Russo-Ukrainian War ^SMason_Garrison 14:16, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- Smasongarrison I would suggest a full discussion for both categories as the war in Donbas involved Pro-Russian military units rather than only Russian military units and the members of the category are almost all Pro-Russian Ukrainians. Category:Pro-Russian people of the war in Donbas is a parent of Category:Russian military personnel of the war in Donbas and a grandparent of Category:Pro-Russian military personnel killed in the war in Donbas. TSventon (talk) 17:42, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  Why is Category:Pro-Russian people of the war in Donbas a parent of Category:Russian military personnel of the war in Donbas? Pro-russian is a cause not a nationality. ^SMason_Garrison 19:26, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  Category:Russian military personnel of the war in Donbas contains Russians and Ukrainians so it is not really a nationality category. TSventon (talk) 19:38, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  If that's the case, then the category should either be renamed to Pro-Russian military personnel of the war in Donbas or purged to only include russian nationals. I personally don't care which way it goes, but the naming isn't consistent. Can you take it to full? ^SMason_Garrison 19:46, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  Done at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2024 December 19#Category:Russian military personnel of the war in Donbas. TSventon (talk) 20:09, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Alvarado wrestling family to Category:Alvarado professional wrestling family – C2C: Per all other subcategories of Category:Professional wrestling families. Mike Selinker (talk) 00:33, 15 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose speedy The main article is Alvarado wrestling family. Armbrust ^{The Homunculus} 06:53, 15 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- Brought up for Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2024 December 24#Category:Alvarado wrestling family.--Mike Selinker (talk) 03:24, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Neapolitan families to Category:Families of Naples – C2C: Per other categories in Category:Italian families. Mike Selinker (talk) 07:54, 15 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- Oppose for speedy, we should discuss whether Category:Families from the Kingdom of Naples is perhaps a better target. Marcocapelle (talk) 18:07, 15 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  - Agreed and brought up for full discussion.--Mike Selinker (talk) 03:24, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ready for deletion

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